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conjugation [2016/03/08 00:22]
fenris [Tempus (for indicative)]
conjugation [2020/03/06 15:18]
ob [Tempus (for indicative)] mor20
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 == Proposal 1 == == Proposal 1 ==
   * formed by appending the suffix **-e** to the stem   * formed by appending the suffix **-e** to the stem
 +  * like in Danish and Norwegian
   * references: [[References#wor02|wor02]]:2, [[References#roe04|roe04]]:15, [[References#par06|par06]]:10, [[References#par11|par11]]:16, [[References#sch12|sch12]]:8   * references: [[References#wor02|wor02]]:2, [[References#roe04|roe04]]:15, [[References#par06|par06]]:10, [[References#par11|par11]]:16, [[References#sch12|sch12]]:8
  
 == Proposal 2 == == Proposal 2 ==
   * formed by appending the suffix **-en** to the stem ([[References#sko03|sko03]]: and in cases where needed prepended by **tu** similar to the Englisch //to//)   * formed by appending the suffix **-en** to the stem ([[References#sko03|sko03]]: and in cases where needed prepended by **tu** similar to the Englisch //to//)
 +  * like in German and Dutch
   * references: [[References#sko03|sko03]]:5, [[References#cha07|cha07]], [[References#goe09|goe09]]:11   * references: [[References#sko03|sko03]]:5, [[References#cha07|cha07]], [[References#goe09|goe09]]:11
  
 == Proposal 3 == == Proposal 3 ==
   * formed by appending the suffix **-a** to the stem   * formed by appending the suffix **-a** to the stem
 +  * like in Swedish and Icelandic
 +  * references: [[References#more20|mor20]]
 + 
 +== Open questions ==
 +Should a special infinitive marker be used like the English //to// (//to run//), German //zu//, Norwegian //å//, Swedish //att//, ...?
  
-=== Active participle ===+=== Active/present participle === 
 + 
 +Can this participle be pluralized? Presumably yes, in which case this must be borne in mind when designing it.
  
 == Proposal 1 == == Proposal 1 ==
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   * references: [[References#par06|par06]]:10, [[References#par11|par11]]:17-18, [[References#sch12|sch12]]:8   * references: [[References#par06|par06]]:10, [[References#par11|par11]]:17-18, [[References#sch12|sch12]]:8
  
-=== Passive participle ===+=== Passive/past participle ===
  
 Can this participle be pluralized? Presumably yes, in which case this must be borne in mind when designing it. And we should also bear in mind the morphology of the similar past/preterite form. Can this participle be pluralized? Presumably yes, in which case this must be borne in mind when designing it. And we should also bear in mind the morphology of the similar past/preterite form.
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   * add the suffix **-te** to the stem   * add the suffix **-te** to the stem
   * references: [[References#cha07|cha07]]   * references: [[References#cha07|cha07]]
- 
 ==== Tempus (for indicative) ==== ==== Tempus (for indicative) ====
  
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   * [if the perfect form of //to have// is used as the auxiliary verb, the past perfect tense is formed (e.g. **Ik hadd stelld** (//i had placed//))]   * [if the perfect form of //to have// is used as the auxiliary verb, the past perfect tense is formed (e.g. **Ik hadd stelld** (//i had placed//))]
   * references: [[References#par06|par06]]:11-12, [[References#sch12|sch12]]:8   * references: [[References#par06|par06]]:11-12, [[References#sch12|sch12]]:8
 +
 +== Proposal 3 ==
 +  * the suffix **-te** is added to the stem to form the preterite
 +  * if the root ends with T or D, this suffix "flips" to **-et**
 +  * if the root ends with a voiced consonant (i.e. B,V,G), the suffix is pronounced, and perhaps also written, **-de**
 +  * the perfect tenses are formed using the verb //have// with the passive participle
 +  * references: [[References#mor20|mor20]]
 +
 +== The de-de bounce ==
 +
 +I, [[User_ob]], might be making a mountain out of a molehill here, but I wanted to say something about repetition of the "duh" syllable. If the past ending is **-de** or **-ede**, then if the next word is the definite article, there will be 2 or 3 de's in a row, e.g. **hi ledede de grup** (he led the group). I think it's okay without the final E (i.e. **hi leded de grup**) and of course there's no "problem" if T is used in the suffix.
  
 === Future === === Future ===
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 == Proposal 1 == == Proposal 1 ==
   * formed with the the auxiliary verb for //to will// / //to shall// and the infinitive   * formed with the the auxiliary verb for //to will// / //to shall// and the infinitive
-  * references[[References#wor02|wor02]]:2, [[References#sko03|sko03]]:5, [[References#cha07|cha07]], [[References#par11|par11]]:19+  * example**ik vil lope** / **ik skal lope**
   * advantage: very common in (all?) Germanic language   * advantage: very common in (all?) Germanic language
   * disadvantage: implicite, therefore likely to collide with the form it is based on   * disadvantage: implicite, therefore likely to collide with the form it is based on
 +  * references: [[References#wor02|wor02]]:2, [[References#sko03|sko03]]:5, [[References#cha07|cha07]], [[References#par11|par11]]:19
  
 == Proposal 2 == == Proposal 2 ==
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 === Volative === === Volative ===
  
-Non-second-person imperatives need to be considered, especially the first-person plural. The obvious solution is a let-like auxiliary, which could in principle be used for all persons and numbers. Example: **lat os spisen** (//let us eat//).+Non-second-person imperatives need to be considered, especially the first-person plural. The obvious solution is a let-like auxiliary, which could in principle be used for all persons and numbers. Example: **lat os spisa** (//let us eat//).
  
 === Subjunctive === === Subjunctive ===
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 (No proposals i've seen so far have conjugation for personae and numeri) (No proposals i've seen so far have conjugation for personae and numeri)
  
 +==== Inchoative and Causative Verbs and the Middle Voice ====
 +
 +We should consider the issues of inchoative (becoming) versus causative (making) verbs, and very similarly, the middle voice. If you know Esperanto, this corresponds to //igxi// and //igi//. The big question is: do we copy (mostly) the natlangs and just use the same verb-forms (i.e. they are "ergative" verbs) or do we make the distinction?
 +
 +I think it's dodgy to use adjectives directly as verbs. The provisional causative suffix is **-en**, so an example causative-verb phrase is: //ik troken de plat// (I'm drying the plate). For the inchoative version, the options are:
 +  * simply use that, i.e. //de plat troken//
 +  * use an inchoative suffix
 +  * use a reflexive pronoun, i.e. //de plat troken sig//
 +  * use the verb "become", i.e. //de plat verd trok//
 +
 +Regarding the middle voice, this relates to verbs in general. An example verb is "burn" and an example phrase is "the coal is burning", which can be interpreted as reflexive or causative. For this, and the unambiguous example of "we're burning the coal", the simple scenario of not making a distinction yields these translations: //de kol bren// (ambiguous) and //vi bren de kol//. How should we handle these verbs?
 ==== Additional remarks ==== ==== Additional remarks ====
-  * mostly it is proposed to make all verbs regular, except for the one for //to be//+  * mostly it is proposed to make all verbs regular, except for the one for //to be//. A possibility for this one special verb (from [[User_ob]]) is the following, using **ver** as the root: infinitive **vera** or **vere** (depending on the suffix), imperative **ver**, participle 1 **verend**, participle 2 **varet**, present tense **er**, preterite **var**. Note that the first three forms are regular, and the second three irregular. 
  
conjugation.txt · Last modified: 2020/04/26 22:51 by ob