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conjugation [2018/08/27 11:05]
ob [Inchoative and Causative Verbs and the Middle Voice] new section
conjugation [2020/03/06 15:18]
ob [Tempus (for indicative)] mor20
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   * formed by appending the suffix **-a** to the stem   * formed by appending the suffix **-a** to the stem
   * like in Swedish and Icelandic   * like in Swedish and Icelandic
 +  * references: [[References#more20|mor20]] 
 + 
 == Open questions == == Open questions ==
 Should a special infinitive marker be used like the English //to// (//to run//), German //zu//, Norwegian //å//, Swedish //att//, ...? Should a special infinitive marker be used like the English //to// (//to run//), German //zu//, Norwegian //å//, Swedish //att//, ...?
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   * if the root ends with a voiced consonant (i.e. B,V,G), the suffix is pronounced, and perhaps also written, **-de**   * if the root ends with a voiced consonant (i.e. B,V,G), the suffix is pronounced, and perhaps also written, **-de**
   * the perfect tenses are formed using the verb //have// with the passive participle   * the perfect tenses are formed using the verb //have// with the passive participle
 +  * references: [[References#mor20|mor20]]
  
 == The de-de bounce == == The de-de bounce ==
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 ==== Inchoative and Causative Verbs and the Middle Voice ==== ==== Inchoative and Causative Verbs and the Middle Voice ====
  
-We should consider the issues of inchoative (becoming) versus causative (making) verbs, and very similarly, the middle voice. If you know Esperanto, this corresponds to //igxi// and //igi//. The big question is: do we copy (mostly) the natlangs and just use the same verb-formsor do we make the distinction?+We should consider the issues of inchoative (becoming) versus causative (making) verbs, and very similarly, the middle voice. If you know Esperanto, this corresponds to //igxi// and //igi//. The big question is: do we copy (mostly) the natlangs and just use the same verb-forms (i.e. they are "ergative" verbs) or do we make the distinction?
  
 I think it's dodgy to use adjectives directly as verbs. The provisional causative suffix is **-en**, so an example causative-verb phrase is: //ik troken de plat// (I'm drying the plate). For the inchoative version, the options are: I think it's dodgy to use adjectives directly as verbs. The provisional causative suffix is **-en**, so an example causative-verb phrase is: //ik troken de plat// (I'm drying the plate). For the inchoative version, the options are:
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   * use the verb "become", i.e. //de plat verd trok//   * use the verb "become", i.e. //de plat verd trok//
  
-Regarding the middle voice, this relates to verbs in general. An example verb is "burn" and a pair of example phrases is "the house is burning" and "we're burning the house". The simple scenario of not making a distinction yields these translations: //de hus bren// and //vi bren de hus//. How should we handle these verbs?+Regarding the middle voice, this relates to verbs in general. An example verb is "burn" and an example phrase is "the coal is burning", which can be interpreted as reflexive or causative. For this, and the unambiguous example of "we're burning the coal", the simple scenario of not making a distinction yields these translations: //de kol bren// (ambiguous) and //vi bren de kol//. How should we handle these verbs?
 ==== Additional remarks ==== ==== Additional remarks ====
-  * mostly it is proposed to make all verbs regular, except for the one for //to be//+  * mostly it is proposed to make all verbs regular, except for the one for //to be//. A possibility for this one special verb (from [[User_ob]]) is the following, using **ver** as the root: infinitive **vera** or **vere** (depending on the suffix), imperative **ver**, participle 1 **verend**, participle 2 **varet**, present tense **er**, preterite **var**. Note that the first three forms are regular, and the second three irregular. 
  
conjugation.txt · Last modified: 2020/04/26 22:51 by ob