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conjugation [2018/08/23 09:48]
ob [Verb forms] te to et after d,t
conjugation [2020/04/26 22:51] (current)
ob [Verb forms] does -end equal -ive?
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 == Proposal 3 == == Proposal 3 ==
   * formed by appending the suffix **-a** to the stem   * formed by appending the suffix **-a** to the stem
-  * like in Swedisch and Icelandic +  * like in Swedish and Icelandic 
 +  * references: [[References#more20|mor20]] 
 + 
 == Open questions == == Open questions ==
 Should a special infinitive marker be used like the English //to// (//to run//), German //zu//, Norwegian //å//, Swedish //att//, ...? Should a special infinitive marker be used like the English //to// (//to run//), German //zu//, Norwegian //å//, Swedish //att//, ...?
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   * add the suffix **-end** to the stem   * add the suffix **-end** to the stem
   * references: [[References#par06|par06]]:10, [[References#par11|par11]]:17-18, [[References#sch12|sch12]]:8   * references: [[References#par06|par06]]:10, [[References#par11|par11]]:17-18, [[References#sch12|sch12]]:8
 +
 +== The -ive suffix ==
 +
 +Does this participle cover meanings corresponding to English "-ive" words ("-ema" in Esperanto)? Examples include: creative, assertive, interrogative.
  
 === Passive/past participle === === Passive/past participle ===
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   * add the suffix **-te** to the stem   * add the suffix **-te** to the stem
   * references: [[References#cha07|cha07]]   * references: [[References#cha07|cha07]]
-  * remark: does this become **-et** after **d,t**? 
 ==== Tempus (for indicative) ==== ==== Tempus (for indicative) ====
  
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   * [if the perfect form of //to have// is used as the auxiliary verb, the past perfect tense is formed (e.g. **Ik hadd stelld** (//i had placed//))]   * [if the perfect form of //to have// is used as the auxiliary verb, the past perfect tense is formed (e.g. **Ik hadd stelld** (//i had placed//))]
   * references: [[References#par06|par06]]:11-12, [[References#sch12|sch12]]:8   * references: [[References#par06|par06]]:11-12, [[References#sch12|sch12]]:8
 +
 +== Proposal 3 ==
 +  * the suffix **-te** is added to the stem to form the preterite
 +  * if the root ends with T or D, this suffix "flips" to **-et**
 +  * if the root ends with a voiced consonant (i.e. B,V,G), the suffix is pronounced, and perhaps also written, **-de**
 +  * the perfect tenses are formed using the verb //have// with the passive participle
 +  * references: [[References#mor20|mor20]]
  
 == The de-de bounce == == The de-de bounce ==
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 === Volative === === Volative ===
  
-Non-second-person imperatives need to be considered, especially the first-person plural. The obvious solution is a let-like auxiliary, which could in principle be used for all persons and numbers. Example: **lat os spisen** (//let us eat//).+Non-second-person imperatives need to be considered, especially the first-person plural. The obvious solution is a let-like auxiliary, which could in principle be used for all persons and numbers. Example: **lat os spisa** (//let us eat//).
  
 === Subjunctive === === Subjunctive ===
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 (No proposals i've seen so far have conjugation for personae and numeri) (No proposals i've seen so far have conjugation for personae and numeri)
  
 +==== Inchoative and Causative Verbs and the Middle Voice ====
 +
 +We should consider the issues of inchoative (becoming) versus causative (making) verbs, and very similarly, the middle voice. If you know Esperanto, this corresponds to //igxi// and //igi//. The big question is: do we copy (mostly) the natlangs and just use the same verb-forms (i.e. they are "ergative" verbs) or do we make the distinction?
 +
 +I think it's dodgy to use adjectives directly as verbs. The provisional causative suffix is **-en**, so an example causative-verb phrase is: //ik troken de plat// (I'm drying the plate). For the inchoative version, the options are:
 +  * simply use that, i.e. //de plat troken//
 +  * use an inchoative suffix
 +  * use a reflexive pronoun, i.e. //de plat troken sig//
 +  * use the verb "become", i.e. //de plat verd trok//
 +
 +Regarding the middle voice, this relates to verbs in general. An example verb is "burn" and an example phrase is "the coal is burning", which can be interpreted as reflexive or causative. For this, and the unambiguous example of "we're burning the coal", the simple scenario of not making a distinction yields these translations: //de kol bren// (ambiguous) and //vi bren de kol//. How should we handle these verbs?
 ==== Additional remarks ==== ==== Additional remarks ====
-  * mostly it is proposed to make all verbs regular, except for the one for //to be//+  * mostly it is proposed to make all verbs regular, except for the one for //to be//. A possibility for this one special verb (from [[User_ob]]) is the following, using **ver** as the root: infinitive **vera** or **vere** (depending on the suffix), imperative **ver**, participle 1 **verend**, participle 2 **varet**, present tense **er**, preterite **var**. Note that the first three forms are regular, and the second three irregular. 
  
conjugation.1535010535.txt.gz · Last modified: 2018/08/23 09:48 by ob